Re: Many hands make light work: what can we do to get 10 minutes of your time in 2016?

[ledger-smb-users <..hidden..>]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 10:06:49 +0100
Chris Travers <..hidden..> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 4:32 AM, ledger-smb-users <
> ..hidden..> wrote:
> 
> > > I appreciate your sensitivity on this but in the context of this
> > > discussion, but in this context, feel free to discuss it.
> >
> > Good. It is ledger-cli. Written in C, and working surprisingly
> > fast, it has a command line interface although there's also a fork,
> > hledger, which can work with a browser GUI.
> >
> 
> I have looked at Ledger-CLI because it was chosen as the basis for an
> open source non-profit-oriented solution.
> 
> It is well done for what it does.   One of the impressions that I got
> from it was that the direction we are moving, in the area of a clear
> separation of mechanism from interface, is a good one and that is one
> thing that LedgerCLI does very well (making it a very good for very
> small operations).
> 
> >
> > It maintains a 'database' in text format with different files for
> > payors/payees and for their commodities and their prices if you
> > like to maintain those, and for the accounts of course. it's all
> > plain readable and relations between the
> > entities are clear and can easily be tracked down if needed.
> >
> 
> Right.  It has to lock that so no concurrent access right?  I mean
> you can have a server which serializes requests and enters them one
> at a time, but you cannot have multiple readers and multiple writers
> at the same moment, as I understand it.  So the design limitations
> are different. If it works for you I won't be the one to bad mouth
> them or anything.  It's a good program for what it does.

Yes, I forgot to mention the lack of simultaneous access by
multiple users. It's something that I don't need.

> However it is worth noting what we can learn from them.
> 
> >
> > Inputting is very fast and for repeating transactions you simple do
> > a search/copy/paste in your text document and change the date.
> >
> 
> I wonder how hard it woudl be to make a ledger-cli-compatible import
> library for LSMB.  Not sure we could do the same tagging they do (our
> tagging system is different) but for basic format stuff should be
> easy I think.  I will add an enhancement item to do this.

That would be very helpful for my future return to LSMB, thanks. :)


Best regards,
ario



> > If the commodity's price has changed you put a new, time stamped,
> > entry in the price list.
> >
> > It's not for people who have no clue of computers and are only
> > windows GUI users, but for people like me, with some basic (and
> > then some more) understanding of computers it's very useable.
> >
> > Reporting is quite comprehensive yet not straight forward, but here
> > my litlle bit more-than-basic understanding of computers plays out
> > quite well. Not to mention the free (as in free beer) support on
> > the forum, irc channel where the main developer chimes in on a
> > regular basis.
> >
> > Install is not straight forward but much less complicated than lsmb
> > was.
> >
> > It's not an ERP but that's not what I need.
> >
> > I just need the expenses, income, stocks (oh, it does handle those
> > also in an elegant manner--no 'warehouses' though), sales and
> > receivables/payables and the reporting thereof, on a project basis.
> >
> > If you remember (it's years ago) the project based reporting was my
> > main reason for starting with LSMB, but with ledger-cli that's
> > covered as well now.
> >
> > However, before I leave this world, which won't be anytime soon if
> > it were up to me, I'm sure I'll have to go back to something like
> > LSMB for my successors to be able to continue the things I'm doing
> > now with ledger, so I'm still interested in the developments.
> > Hence my continued subscription to this list. :)
> >
> 
> Thanks again for the discussion here.  It is worth seeing what we can
> learn from them as well.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
> 
> >
> >
> > > > > After all, we can't be everything to everybody, which means
> > > > > it's definitely good to have alternatives to point people to.
> > > >
> > > > Right, it's no problem.
> > > >
> > > > > > By now probably things have changed in LSMB in that maybe
> > > > > > there is a confirmation step now, but I'm sure I would find
> > > > > > another way to do something seriously damaging to the
> > > > > > database.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Actually, it would be very helpful, if you did that :-)
> > > >
> > > > Your sense of humour is appreciated. :)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Actually almost every time we have seen this, it has prompted
> > > database fixes, so seriously.....
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Then there was the install procedure which was really some
> > > > > > excercise in self-torture for a diy-er... I'm happy to hear
> > > > > > that things are going to improve, or already have.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Right. There's a direct relation between this point and the
> > > > > incorporation of Efficito, which offers a hosted  solution:
> > > > > there's a direct relationship between the complexity of the
> > > > > setup procedure and the desire to be not only an accounting
> > > > > system, but also to integrate invoicing, with PDF invoices,
> > > > > open item management, inventory management, fixed assets
> > > > > administration and so on, with the ability to mail customers
> > > > > and vendors directly from inside the system. (Although,
> > > > > granted, most users probably most heavily use the accounting
> > > > > side.)
> > > >
> > > > I sense a tiny amount of friction here with the open source
> > > > model if not 'home use' but understand the rationale.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, Erik's sentence above covers a breathtaking scope in terms
> > > of what we actually offer.
> >
> > Yes, and it's the combination of you offering an open source
> > solution as well running a business based on it which made me
> > hesitating mentioning the other sulution that I'm using now.
> >
> > > The setup complexity for a basic system for a given industry will
> > > eventually get solved for some definition of "setup."  THis could
> > > be done with vms or docker images, or better packaging.
> >
> > With 'better' packaging you probably mean 'faster'? I agree.
> > VM Appliances would be an option, but not for me as I'm using Qubes
> > OS, but Docker images could work also.
> >
> > > But if I
> > > understand Erik's points above that's a minority really of what we
> > > are talking about.
> > >
> > > First, people will want some new templates or the like.  Some of
> > > this can be improved as well.  But design is design and that is
> > > not something you can just drop in regardless of the technology
> > > used.
> > >
> > > But then we have things which are "setup" issues but are their own
> > > disciplines.  If you are slightly larger, how do you tune
> > > PostgreSQL?  Do you want backups?  An ability to restore to a
> > > point in time if something goes badly?  Where are these stored?
> > > Want replication?  What then?
> >
> > With the ledger-cli I'm using git for that. :)
> >
> > > Then we get to emailing invoices.
> >
> > No need for that.
> >
> > > Here anti-spam best practices have
> > > changed a lot in the last decade  Do you want to keep up with
> > > that?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > > Then there are other aspects.  Do you want training?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > > Or is
> > > documentation and the email lists good enough?
> >
> > If comprehensive enough: Yes.
> >
> > > What about on-going
> > > support?
> >
> > Well, of course. :)
> >
> > > There are a lot of people for whom these extra burdens of running
> > > a system are really not very attractive.  That is effectively
> > > where Efficito comes in.
> >
> > Fully understood.
> >
> > > Are we the only vendor here?  No.
> > > Do we want to be the only vendor here?  No.
> > > Do we want people to run LSMB at home?  Yes.
> > > Are we here to help?  Yes.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for introducing me to accounting however, I learned a
> > > > > > lot of this experience.-
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks again for following up on your original feedback!
> > > > > Happy and prosperous 2016!
> > > >
> > > > And to you too.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thanks again!
> >
> > You're welcome. Thanks for the elaborate reply.
> >
> >
> > ario
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > ario
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> 
> 
> 


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