Re: Poll: Most helpful feature after 1.3?

[o1bigtenor <..hidden..>]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Chris Travers <..hidden..> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 7:53 AM, o1bigtenor <..hidden..> wrote:
>
>> Your response is why I thought very seriously of not saying anything.
>>
>> I am NOT a computer expert.
>> I have used computers from a Mac plus in 1986 through various
>> iterations to a PC in 1999 starting with Windows SE and then moving to
>> first RedHat (full time in 2001 part time investigating before that)
>> and then to Debian in 2007 (wanting a longer cycle between upgrades
>> than 6 months).
>> I run a farm.
>> I have also worked for wages full time for most of the last 17 years.
>> I USE computer systems.
>> I haven't felt a need to want to create computer systems (programs etc).
>>
>> The instructions given for Debian installation were very frustrating.
>
> Ok.  Now we are getting somewhere :-).  These are the sorts of details
> that are helpful to us.
>
> To make sure we are on the same page, you are talking about the
> instructions that came with the .tar.gz, right?
>
> Also do you know which version you installed and ran into all these
> problems?  I am asking to try to get a sense of how things may have
> changed since then.

I used files from .deb repositories for each of the installations.

I have used apt-get I have also used aptitude. Each seemed to get
whatever job done but then came the issues.

This work was last summer - - thinking June/July 2010.

My contact actually wrote a perl script which worked through all the
steps as his final attempt. It was because of this script that I got
to where everything was installed. I think that he spent a lot of time
on that script that I didn't pay for because he wanted to get things
to work - - he hates to leave something not completed.
>>
>> It was assumed that you had Postgres running.
>> It was assumed that you had all the associated programs (like psql)
>> running and correctly linked.
>
>
> Before getting into where we might be able to improve the
> documentation based on your feedback, one issue is worth mentioning
> regarding the tarballs.  The tarballs are intended to be installed on
> a wide range of operating systems (they should be able to be installed
> on various UNIX systems, Windows, Linux, BSD, etc).  So I don't think
> we will ever be able to provide comprehensive distro-specific
> instructions anywhere.  On top of that, the Debian specific
> documentation is not authored by me.  Generally I have assumed that
> packages solve this problem (.debs), but I also recognize that since I
> am not a Debian user, those will have to be packaged by someone else.
>
> This being said, your comments suggest there is room for improvement.
> First, I don't know if there were .debs available at that time, but if
> there were maybe we didn't do a good enough job of making sure people
> knew about them.  Secondly it might be worth adding a "before you
> begin" checklist.  Things like "Make sure PostgreSQL is installed and
> running and that you can access it with psql."  As well as suggestions
> as to where to find additional documentation if you run into trouble.

Wouldn't be even better to have a .deb or .rpm that went like this:

1. you want to run LedgerSMB
2. you do not have Postgres running
3. you do not have Apahe running
4. run this script
5. enter passwords as required by the script
6. start the service
7. enter a password for the superuser and a user for ledgerSMB
8. run

The script my contact wrote did everything to step 6. It was after
that that I couldn't get the program to actually run so I could set up
my COA etc.

>
> It might also be worth pointing out this list as a place for install help.
>
>> It was assumed that you had Apache running.
>> It was assumed that you knew how to make these programs work harmoniously.
>> It was assumed that if anything didn't install correctly that you
>> would KNOW how to fix the issues and repair the now broken install.
>
> >From these comments it sounds like you may have into the
> incompatibility with a feature of Apache (SUExec) that we inherited
> from SQL-Ledger.  This was only recently reported to us and we got it
> corrected in the most recent release, not that this helps you now.
> Maybe if we push the list as a place to get installation help these
> problems will be reported and fixed sooner.

I didn't respond any sooner because I've heard RTFM lots of times and
so have gotten quite used to flailing around beating my head against
the wall in trying to determine what it is that I need to do next. Its
also why I went to my contact - - he's a materials engineer by
training and works in  I don't know how many languages so when
something stumps him - - well I won't even bother trying. I also
didn't want to spent $500+ just to install either. I do know that I
spent well over 25 hours working on things and my contact probably did
about 6 to 8 hours because he investigated the source code and said it
was quite an improvement re: its predecessor which he that previously
looked at.

I wanted something with lots of horsepower under the hood because I
have 3 businesses that I'm running and one of those I want lots of
background info stored with the ledger and I was thinking of adding
some BLOB areas so that I could enhance the usefulness of the ledger
as a management tool. (As I used 251 columns in the spreadsheet
version of my ledger from 1997 or 1998 I think I qualify as at least
somewhat anal about information!)
>
>>
>>
>> One of the issues I remember running into was trying to determine
>> which password was being asked for. Was it for the Postgres superuser
>> or the LedgerSMB superuser or the Postgres database owner.
>
> Ok.  That's good feedback.  Do you remember if you installed
> PostgreSQL with apt-get?  I am assuming so, right?
>
> It might be worth mentioning something about default configurations
> that many distributions use.
>
>
>>
>> It was after many hours of paid help that I was able to get LedgerSMB
>> installed - - then I could not figure out how to log in. I tried all
>> the combinations of things I could think of. I used  commands to
>> install new superuser passwords after removing the old ones. Nothing
>> worked. So I just gave up.
>
> Ouch.  Again, good feedback.  A little extra documentation here could
> have solved this.  My apologies.
>>
>> I see myself as a business owner/operator and have become somewhat
>> capable as a computer user so when I read your response to my
>> suggestion it was like what I have heard lots of time 'RTFM'. Well I
>> have read manual and I can tell you more about whats happening in a
>> cow's gut by looking at her feces than I can tell you about how to set
>> up the 'common' involved *nix program.
>
> That wasn't the spirit of my response.  Rather I wanted to ask for
> details as to the problems you ran into so we can improve things.  Now
> you have provided more information so we can see what we can do about
> it.  You evidently had a bad experience and getting details is helpful
> in ensuring it doesn't happen again.
>
> Ok, so now this has been said, what do you think of the ideas here
> that we could focus on a little more?  What else do you think we could
> do better to avoid similar problems the next time around?

Some of this is now quite difficult. I had a computer lockup - created
by installing a program (trying to actually) and I had to ssh into it
and download my files onto the present machine. The previous has a new
operating system (Ubuntu 11.04 and I hate the panel or whatever they
are calling it - - and I can't figure out how to change it!) so I will
check and see if the script is still available.

A script which would just install and setup all the requisite programs
would be my preferred solution.

Others might see a need for less meta type methods but for those that
are more users (rather than under the hood types) I think you might
get a very positive response. Those that are the 'under the hood
types' would be most likely quite able to proceed on their own.

Thank you for your consideration!!

Darald