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Re: Panic really setting in now!

On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 21:58 -0400, Luke wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, beamends wrote:
> 
> > That's the trouble - the only software that hasn't come with Ubuntu that
> > I'm using is LSMB - everything else is vanilla Ubuntu. Of the four
> 
> Hmm, you yourself have talked about downloading PERL components from 
> the developer's site, when packaged library versions already exist, and 
> you did not answer my message to explain why.
> 
> Something is wrong with your PERL installation.  I might suggest pulling 
> the entire PERL installation, and reinstalling it from scratch.
> 
> Well, that may not be the necessarily best solution, but I'm guessing I 
> would try that first.
> 
> However, you also didn't answer my question about how you're doing these 
> upgrades.
> 
> You also said that you are leaving config files "as-is", which will 
> eventually lead to system disruption in any configuration.  Why do you 
> think there are so many old useless registry keys hanging around in 
> Windows?  It just updates things, and if you have to reconfigure, so be 
> it.  Ubuntu at least asks, and lets you decide how you want to do it.
> That can be a bad thing, if you don't want to deal with the configurations 
> of a bunch of different programs, but that's just one of the differences 
> that must be managed.
> 
> > upgrades I've done, 3 have left me stuck at a command prompt. Now that
> 
> Stuck at the command prompt?  Suggesting that you're running a "server" 
> with gnome or something on it?  A bit non-standard, that, although not 
> entirely unusual.
> 
> I had this happen to me *once* in the last six or so years using Ubuntu, 
> and 4 before that using Debian (its parent distribution), and while I 
> don't remember the circumstances, I'm pretty sure it was my own fault.
> But okay, no use crying over fried installations.:)
> 
> > may be because of something that went wrong way back, but it's no use
> > saying that - if I buy the latest version of a car I don't expect to
> > have to faff about for three days to start it!
> 
> You do if you first break your old car's wheels, crack its engine block, 
> and stick a fork into each of the speakers, and then try to build the new 
> car on top of those components.
> 
> I.E. false dichotomy, but I can go there.:)
> 
> The point is: if you unintentionally take a sledge hammer to the wood 
> around your home's front windows, and then install new windows without 
> replacing the old frames, do you honestly expect the new windows to just 
> slide up and down without a hitch, even though the frames are bent and 
> broken?  The argument you're making above, is the same as saying "but 
> their new windows!"
> 
> > As it turns out, I've found other complaints about Perl 5.10.0 causing
> > with Ubuntu 8.10 and 9.04 - but the only fix I could find, installing
> > Perl 5.8.8, doesn't work - if I were a hobbyist I might have a few days
> > to sort that out, but time is going by.......
> 
> I won't dispute that.  However, with very few cpanable exceptions, you 
> should be able to use stock Ubuntu components to do this, and you've 
> stated that you aren't.
> I agree that the LedgerSMB PERL requirements are a bit draconian, but it 
> can be done, and you had done it, apparently.
> 
> > The lack of the ability to re-install the OS without losing data is a
> > serious issue - when/if this current problem gets sorted out I'm going
> > to have to have an additional fully set up machine ready before risking
> > any updates - I feel no need to do that with my Windows PC.
> 
> And most of us feel no need to do that with our Linux PCs and servers 
> either.  Because your statement is simply incorrect.
> I can't tell you how many times I have installed different versions of one 
> Ubuntu, or even entirely different distributions (Debian to Ubuntu, for 
> example), and retained all my user data in the process.
> Heck, I've even done it with somebody else's FreeBSD ISP shell server.
> We lost nobody's data, and the majority of the programs got their old 
> configurations back.
> 
> It can be slightly fidly when it comes to databases and such, but even 
> that can be done; but user home directories, most variable non-cache data, 
> etc., never has to go anywhere.
> 
> Usually the programs in their configurations will be gone, but if you 
> reinstall the same versions, you can just copy over your old configs from 
> the /etc directory, and you're usually good to go.
> 
> Try *that* with windows.  Install a new copy, and just like Linux, all the 
> programs are history, even if their code is still there.  However, you 
> reinstall, and good luck getting your old configurations back.
> 
> Not that this helps you right now, but you're blaming the OS for 
> apparently not being able to do things, that you never told it to be ready 
> to do, even though it is most capable of it.
> 
> > Sorry if that sounds a bit ungrateful towards the unpaid stalwarts of
> > Open Source, but if I were Joe Bloggs Shop Ltd I'd have given up after
> > the first debacle - no doubt with the Sage Rep saying "told you so".
> 
> If Joe had followed the vastly available documentation, or better yet, 
> decided that he didn't know the whole picture and would employ or ask a 
> pro or expert, he wouldn't have had a problem.  If he did, he could call 
> that same expert and say "you screwed up: fix it".  I'm not saying that's 
> what should have happened in your case, as you obviously know more than 
> the average Joe Bloggs Shop, but even so the first time you had a failed 
> upgrade, you should have hit the forums, the lists, etc., and figured out 
> what happened, so you could both fix it, and not do it again next time.
> 
> Since you've talked about Windows, I will note that if an OS upgrade fails 
> in Windows, the chances of having a still working system to even patch 
> into workability, are about a million to one.
> 
> This is all harsh, I know it.  I usually have more patients than this.:)
> Sorry.
> 
> Luke

Hi Luke,
after the first time Ubuntu upgrade failed, (using the Upgrade Manager
menu thingie) I've never used .debs or such, except where further
upgrades have failed and there was no way forward. Ok, these problems
may be due to legacy issues surrounding that first failure, but surely
that shouldn't really happen?

I did indeed completely remove Perl, and then re-install it from
Synaptic, and things did indeed get moved round (where the Perl 5.10.0
directory is and such), but it didn't fix the problem.

I know I'm being rather grumpy about this - but having persuaded the new
owners that Linux is the best thing since sliced bread, bearing in mind
their Windows PC has never given any trouble, and then this all
happening (again) is, to say the least, embarrassing.

Anyway, if anyone else has the same problem after upgrading to Ubuntu
8.10 or 9.04, there is a solution if you happen to have a spare machine
that 9.10 has just been installed on (I tried just installing LSMB 1.2.8
(?), but it fell over when trying use the Admin screen with an type
error from, I assume, Postgres 8.3)....

This is not a detailed guide, on the gist of what I did....

1. Remove completely Postgres 8.3
2. Download and install Postgres 8.2.x from the Ubuntu site (you can't
get 8.2 with apt, at least not without messing about with the sources
file)
2. Installed LSMB following :
http://www.howtoforge.com/ledgersmb_debian_etch

which is the simplest set of instructions I've yet found - in fact it
couldn't be simpler - cut and paste, only remembering to change
passwords.

3. Change the port to 5432 in ledgersmb.conf

4. Create a dbase with the same name that the backup came from.

5. Create a user with the same name that did the backup (I don't know if
it has to be the same, it just seemed sensible)

6. Restore the backup with 

pg_restore -d BeamendsLRS4x4 
/home/growing0/Desktop/BeamendsLRS4x4-1.2.0-20091014.sqlc

There were 259 errors, but nothing serious as far as I can see.

And it works! 

As I have had to do this at home on an old laptop with no fan (conks out
if worked hard) I've got to do it all again tomorrow on the old PC,
transfer all the companies files across etc - but at least we can
actually run the business again...

Cheers
Richard

> 
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-- 
I have become.......comfortably numb