Re: Panic really setting in now!

[Luke <..hidden..>]

On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, beamends wrote:

> That's the trouble - the only software that hasn't come with Ubuntu that
> I'm using is LSMB - everything else is vanilla Ubuntu. Of the four

Hmm, you yourself have talked about downloading PERL components from 
the developer's site, when packaged library versions already exist, and 
you did not answer my message to explain why.

Something is wrong with your PERL installation.  I might suggest pulling 
the entire PERL installation, and reinstalling it from scratch.

Well, that may not be the necessarily best solution, but I'm guessing I 
would try that first.

However, you also didn't answer my question about how you're doing these 
upgrades.

You also said that you are leaving config files "as-is", which will 
eventually lead to system disruption in any configuration.  Why do you 
think there are so many old useless registry keys hanging around in 
Windows?  It just updates things, and if you have to reconfigure, so be 
it.  Ubuntu at least asks, and lets you decide how you want to do it.
That can be a bad thing, if you don't want to deal with the configurations 
of a bunch of different programs, but that's just one of the differences 
that must be managed.

> upgrades I've done, 3 have left me stuck at a command prompt. Now that

Stuck at the command prompt?  Suggesting that you're running a "server" 
with gnome or something on it?  A bit non-standard, that, although not 
entirely unusual.

I had this happen to me *once* in the last six or so years using Ubuntu, 
and 4 before that using Debian (its parent distribution), and while I 
don't remember the circumstances, I'm pretty sure it was my own fault.
But okay, no use crying over fried installations.:)

> may be because of something that went wrong way back, but it's no use
> saying that - if I buy the latest version of a car I don't expect to
> have to faff about for three days to start it!

You do if you first break your old car's wheels, crack its engine block, 
and stick a fork into each of the speakers, and then try to build the new 
car on top of those components.

I.E. false dichotomy, but I can go there.:)

The point is: if you unintentionally take a sledge hammer to the wood 
around your home's front windows, and then install new windows without 
replacing the old frames, do you honestly expect the new windows to just 
slide up and down without a hitch, even though the frames are bent and 
broken?  The argument you're making above, is the same as saying "but 
their new windows!"

> As it turns out, I've found other complaints about Perl 5.10.0 causing
> with Ubuntu 8.10 and 9.04 - but the only fix I could find, installing
> Perl 5.8.8, doesn't work - if I were a hobbyist I might have a few days
> to sort that out, but time is going by.......

I won't dispute that.  However, with very few cpanable exceptions, you 
should be able to use stock Ubuntu components to do this, and you've 
stated that you aren't.
I agree that the LedgerSMB PERL requirements are a bit draconian, but it 
can be done, and you had done it, apparently.

> The lack of the ability to re-install the OS without losing data is a
> serious issue - when/if this current problem gets sorted out I'm going
> to have to have an additional fully set up machine ready before risking
> any updates - I feel no need to do that with my Windows PC.

And most of us feel no need to do that with our Linux PCs and servers 
either.  Because your statement is simply incorrect.
I can't tell you how many times I have installed different versions of one 
Ubuntu, or even entirely different distributions (Debian to Ubuntu, for 
example), and retained all my user data in the process.
Heck, I've even done it with somebody else's FreeBSD ISP shell server.
We lost nobody's data, and the majority of the programs got their old 
configurations back.

It can be slightly fidly when it comes to databases and such, but even 
that can be done; but user home directories, most variable non-cache data, 
etc., never has to go anywhere.

Usually the programs in their configurations will be gone, but if you 
reinstall the same versions, you can just copy over your old configs from 
the /etc directory, and you're usually good to go.

Try *that* with windows.  Install a new copy, and just like Linux, all the 
programs are history, even if their code is still there.  However, you 
reinstall, and good luck getting your old configurations back.

Not that this helps you right now, but you're blaming the OS for 
apparently not being able to do things, that you never told it to be ready 
to do, even though it is most capable of it.

> Sorry if that sounds a bit ungrateful towards the unpaid stalwarts of
> Open Source, but if I were Joe Bloggs Shop Ltd I'd have given up after
> the first debacle - no doubt with the Sage Rep saying "told you so".

If Joe had followed the vastly available documentation, or better yet, 
decided that he didn't know the whole picture and would employ or ask a 
pro or expert, he wouldn't have had a problem.  If he did, he could call 
that same expert and say "you screwed up: fix it".  I'm not saying that's 
what should have happened in your case, as you obviously know more than 
the average Joe Bloggs Shop, but even so the first time you had a failed 
upgrade, you should have hit the forums, the lists, etc., and figured out 
what happened, so you could both fix it, and not do it again next time.

Since you've talked about Windows, I will note that if an OS upgrade fails 
in Windows, the chances of having a still working system to even patch 
into workability, are about a million to one.

This is all harsh, I know it.  I usually have more patients than this.:)
Sorry.

Luke