On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 6:11 PM,
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Today's Topics:
1. deleting an invoice (Michael Richardson)
2. Re: deleting an invoice (Tone Irene Andersen)
3. Re: deleting an invoice (Nigel Titley)
4. Re: deleting an invoice (Chris Travers)
5. Re: deleting an invoice (Lyle)
6. Re: deleting an invoice (Chris Travers)
7. Re: deleting an invoice (Erik Huelsmann)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:24:20 -0400
From: Michael Richardson <..hidden..>
Subject: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
To: ledger-smb-users <..hidden..>
Message-ID: <..hidden..>
with 1.3.18, I get:
DELETE FROM invoice WHERE trans_id = ?
ERROR: update or delete on table "invoice" violates foreign key
constraint "invoice_tax_form_invoice_id_fkey" on table
"invoice_tax_form"
DETAIL: Key (id)=(77399) is still referenced from table
"invoice_tax_form".
when deleting an unpaid/unreconciled invoice.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:29:37 +0200
From: Tone Irene Andersen <..hidden..>
Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
To: ..hidden..
Message-ID: <..hidden..>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed;
reply-type=original
Hi.
You arent suppose to delete an invoice, rather void it. If you delete it you
make issues in your books.
Mvh / Best Regards
Tone Irene Andersen
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Richardson
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:24 PM
To: ledger-smb-users
Subject: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
with 1.3.18, I get:
DELETE FROM invoice WHERE trans_id = ?
ERROR: update or delete on table "invoice" violates foreign key
constraint "invoice_tax_form_invoice_id_fkey" on table
"invoice_tax_form"
DETAIL: Key (id)=(77399) is still referenced from table
"invoice_tax_form".
when deleting an unpaid/unreconciled invoice.
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 03:12:21 +0100
From: Nigel Titley <..hidden..>
Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
To: ..hidden..
Message-ID: <..hidden..>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 30/08/2012 20:29, Tone Irene Andersen wrote:
> Hi.
>
> You arent suppose to delete an invoice, rather void it. If you delete it you
> make issues in your books.
>
That's true, but he shouldn't be getting an pg error message, especially
if there is a "delete" button for him to press
Nigel
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:27:10 -0700
From: Chris Travers <..hidden..>
Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
To: ..hidden..
Message-ID:
<CAKt_ZfsarqJLYORXr=..hidden..>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Nigel Titley <..hidden..> wrote:
> On 30/08/2012 20:29, Tone Irene Andersen wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > You arent suppose to delete an invoice, rather void it. If you delete it
> you
> > make issues in your books.
> >
> That's true, but he shouldn't be getting an pg error message, especially
> if there is a "delete" button for him to press
>
> This is true. I forget what we decided to do about this in 1.3. In 1.4
you can't delete but you can void. The thing is:
1) Disabling transaction reversal enforcement kind of puts you on
unsupported territory anyway. There are a lot of hidden gotchas that
happen when you start deleting invoices and these don't have accepted
solutions accounting-wise because you aren't supposed to delete them. For
example you can end up with *really* weird COGS numbers.
2) At the same time occasionally we run into cases where people can't do
without deleting the invoices. So we have the option.
I am thinking the best solution here is to put a warning on the audit
controls screen so people are aware that this is not a supported
configuration and that more work will need to be done by whoever disables
it.
What do other people think?
Best Wishes,
Chris Travers
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:07:51 +0100
From: Lyle <..hidden..>
Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
To: ..hidden..
Message-ID: <..hidden..>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 31/08/2012 06:27, Chris Travers wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Nigel Titley <..hidden..
> <mailto:..hidden..>> wrote:
>
> On 30/08/2012 20:29, Tone Irene Andersen wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > You arent suppose to delete an invoice, rather void it. If you
> delete it you
> > make issues in your books.
> >
> That's true, but he shouldn't be getting an pg error message,
> especially
> if there is a "delete" button for him to press
>
> This is true. I forget what we decided to do about this in 1.3. In
> 1.4 you can't delete but you can void. The thing is:
As I understand, even Quickbooks has a delete option. The thing is,
certainly for new and trainee bookkeepers, you make so many mistakes
that the books simply wouldn't be readable without this.
> What do other people think?
I think it should be supported properly.
Lyle
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 03:06:20 -0700
From: Chris Travers <..hidden..>
Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
To: ..hidden..
Message-ID:
<..hidden..>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 2:07 AM, Lyle <..hidden..> wrote:
>
> I think it should be supported properly.
>
> Can you define what proper behavior is when an invoice is deleted, FIFO
inventory behavior is used, and the price of the item is volatile? This is
where our nasty surprises currently come in. Of course you can't get help
from accountants because the workflow itself violates generally accepted
accounting principles and practices. Quickbooks gets away from this a bit
because they don't support FIFO inventory valuation, probably because it
leads to an inability to sanely delete invoices). They use average cost
instead.
The second problem has to do with auditability. If you can delete invoices
generally after they have become a part of the financial records of your
business, then internal controls largely don't matter.
What we will support (and I think that this is as close to "proper support"
as possible) in 1.4 is two stage entry and approval. Enter a transaction,
save it. Review it. At this point it is not part of the books. It is not
an invoice. It cannot be printed or emailed. It is just a record that can
become an invoice. It can be deleted or approved. Once it is approved it
is shown in the reports as an invoice and can no longer be deleted. This
is the proper way (accounting-wise) to handle the data entry issue.
Deleting invoices after they have been posted to the books though is a
recipe for bad things on all levels and I can't see how we can ever support
this.
Best Wishes,
Chris Travers
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:11:42 +0200
From: Erik Huelsmann <..hidden..>
Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
To: ..hidden..
Message-ID:
<..hidden..>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi all,
To help trainee bookkeepers, I always keep a current backup / training copy
of my books. They prepare the invoice or posting in the test copy and when
the senior validates it as correct, they copy it over to production.
If you don't want to work that way: simply revoke their right to post the
invoices. Seniors can verify before posting the invoice without causing the
extra confusing postings.
I really believe there's a process or social issue behind this and as Chris
said, deleting poses issues for which there is no acceptable answer from a
finance perspective.
Also: an invoice is a claim on someone's assets. If you cancel that claim,
you should keep records that you did.
Concluding: I'm not at all on favor of supporting deletion. If voided
invoices need comments to make the books understandable, there's the option
to add internal notes.
My 2c.
Bye,
Erik.
sent from my phone
On Aug 31, 2012 11:40 AM, "Lyle" <..hidden..> wrote:
> On 31/08/2012 06:27, Chris Travers wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Nigel Titley <..hidden..
> > <mailto:..hidden..>> wrote:
> >
> > On 30/08/2012 20:29, Tone Irene Andersen wrote:
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > You arent suppose to delete an invoice, rather void it. If you
> > delete it you
> > > make issues in your books.
> > >
> > That's true, but he shouldn't be getting an pg error message,
> > especially
> > if there is a "delete" button for him to press
> >
> > This is true. I forget what we decided to do about this in 1.3. In
> > 1.4 you can't delete but you can void. The thing is:
>
> As I understand, even Quickbooks has a delete option. The thing is,
> certainly for new and trainee bookkeepers, you make so many mistakes
> that the books simply wouldn't be readable without this.
>
> > What do other people think?
>
> I think it should be supported properly.
>
>
> Lyle
>
>
>
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Live Security Virtual Conference
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threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
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