Re: At the end of my teather with LSMB

[beamends <..hidden..>]

On Tue, 2008-05-27 at 04:13 -0400, Luke wrote:
> On Mon, 26 May 2008, beamends wrote:
> 
> > > I don't know how things work with VAT, but here, the vendor puts sales tax 
> > > right on the receipt, and collects it.  So it is an expense to me.
> > > 
> > > Therefore, on the AP Transaction, it is just another line item, attributed 
> > > to a different expense account.
> > > 
> > > I'm guessing that VAT works differently, however, or you would have 
> > > already done that, as indicated below.
> > 
> > The VAT should work, but the problem is that if I enter an AP
> > transaction it doesn't always appear!
> 
> What "it": the VAT or the transaction itself?

The VAT, usually, though there have been the odd complete transactions
missing. Where they are missing, it could well be operator error, but
bearing in mind the actual operator might well be of the "that's an SEP"
(Somebody Else's Problem) persuasion it worries me that they can leave
the screen, or even post twice and the same number gets used (using the
"back" button does that).  


> 
> > As I understand it, for practical purposes, VAT & GST work the same way
> > bar the shouting. Again the issue is really disappearing entries.
> 
> Then again the question is: what entries are disappearing, and how are you 
> determining that they are?
> For that matter, how are you posting them in the first place?
> 
> I'm asking you for a real "day in the life" snapshot of the process here.
> 
> * I go to AP -> Transaction.
> * I select the vendor.
> * I enter the date.
> * I enter the amount, and description, then select an account on that line 
> item.
> * I click "update".
> * I go to the next line item which has just appeared, and enter the amount 
> of the VAT, the description, and select my VAT account.
> * I uncheck the "tax" box, and click "update".
> * I do the following to attach the payment.
> * I click "update", then "post".
> * I then go to AP -> Reports.
> * I select these options, and when I hit "continue", the AP transaction 
> just entered is missing!
> 
> Etc., etc., etc..
> 
> That is what I am asking you to tell us, because you seem to have a 
> complex problem here, requiring a play by play to solve.
> 

Ok, I've just done a transaction as outlined above, adding the payment
at the bottom. Looking at the AP Transactions report, with the tax box
ticked, I see the tax field has the total of the transaction in it, as
does the Total field (20.00).

There is no entry for the transaction in the Tax Paid report.

If I now go back and change the transaction so that the non-vat total is
in the Amount field (17.02, and tick the VAT box (17.5%) and put the VAT
amount (Â2.98) and Update, then correct total (20.00 - slightly greyed
out) appears next to the Creditors Control Account box. All looks well.

So I Post As New it (that's what Mr. Average is going to do, right or
wrong).

In the AP Transaction report the new one is now there, but still with
20.00 in both the Tax and Total columns. Both have the same Invoice
number (not in sequence with "normal" invoice numbers) . The second
transaction has now appeared in the Tax Paid report, but the Amount
field is empty, but the Tax field is correct. The first transaction is
still missing entirely.

Presuming they should be there (should they?), I go to the General
Ledger - either transaction is there, but there is an Invoice with the
same number from about a month ago.

Trying to reverse these transactions, using -ve numbers, has the same
effect - I've started up the creek without a paddle... 



> No disrespect intended, as you seem like an intelligent fellow from 
> your posts in the last months, but I suspect very strongly that what ever 
> you think is missing, is not actually missing; or if it is, it is because 
> of operator error or misunderstanding.
> No offense intended, really, I just think we all need to see that play by 
> play of your problem process here.
> 
> Think of it this way: if you did have a tech support contract with Intuit 
> or the like, the guy on the other end of the phone is going to ask you for 
> exactly the same thing.
> 
> > The show stopper was on Friday though - I finished up with 10 ledger
> > entries for the same fuel bill (not a problem in it's self, but very
> > time consuming) all with the SAME number. As is obvious I'm no
> > accountant, but there is no way I'd present that to our accountant - if
> > I can't work out what's going on on the day I do it, he has no chance!
> 
> How did you come by *ten* ledger entries for this?  At most it should have 
> been four--two for cost and two for tax; although the whole thing should 
> have been a single AP Transaction, as Chris and I have said.

I should have made that clearer - what I meant was on seeing it not
working I tried again. And again......

> 
> > Together with "missing" invoice, purchase order etc numbers (where I've
> > delayed posting due to a queue in the shop, or simply forgetting, the
> > accounts would be highly suspect to him, and indeed to the VAT people
> > who would, I suspect, reject them out-of-hand and demand a fully audited
> > re-count as they would have "unrecorded cash transactions" written all
> > over them . As this can be up to 7 years later, such a scenario does not
> > even bear thinking about....
> 
> Why are they missing again?  Because you forgot to click "post" (your 
> immediately preceding paragraph seems to suggest that), or because you 
> can't find them in reports, or for some other reason?
> 

It probably is because I forgot to post them, but the issue is anyone
looking at the books is going to ask why Invoice 999 is missing. Saying
the system skipped a number because I forgot to post it is not going to
help - a VAT man is going to dig very deep looking for the missing cash,
even if it isn't, or worse may just make an assumption about cash
transactions and bill accordingly unless I can somehow *prove* I've done
nothing wrong - expensive.

> Sorry to harp on this mate, but more info, more info, more info.  You keep 
> dropping these little bomb shells, and filling in only the most broad 
> strokes.
> I have about three guesses as to what is going on in the above paragraph, 
> and none of them may be right.  Again, that could be my problem, but you 
> seem to be saying that you are not entering complete transactions, and 
> then wondering why the program doesn't have them on file.  Since that 
> makes no sense, I'm sure that's not what you mean.
> 
> > Also in Stroller's reply he state that he actually uses a Book Keeper to
> > enter data in another system to present to his accountant. That's pretty
> > damming - if I'd known that.......... good old 20/20 hindsight.
> 
> That's not how I understood his comments at all.  He seemed to be saying 
> that he does his thing with LedgerSMB, and then gets all of the data to 
> his accountant by one means or another.  Since the accountant doesn't 
> use LedgerSMB, she has one of her staff enter the data into what ever 
> software she does use, purely as a convenience factor to her, not as any 
> kind of comment on the program which Stroller uses.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Luke
> 

Cheers
Richard

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